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	<title>Comments on: Green policies, green papers and why it&#8217;s worth listening to a dying Government</title>
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	<link>http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/politics/green-policies-green-papers-and-why-its-worth-listening-to-a-dying-government/</link>
	<description>Politics, brains, social action and the day to day life of the RSA’s chief executive</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 10:39:05 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Derek Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/politics/green-policies-green-papers-and-why-its-worth-listening-to-a-dying-government/comment-page-1/#comment-2715</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/?p=2086#comment-2715</guid>
		<description>Thank you, William, for your correction which I am happy to accept: I concede that only 31068 US scientists have expressed their scepticism of The UN-IPCC&#039;s approach to climate change, rather than the 31072 I claimed. To these of course, we must add those &quot;over 400 Prominent Scientists&quot; from 25 different countries who gave evidence on oath to the U.S Senate Environment &amp; Public Works Committee released in full (141 pages) on 20 December 2007 under the title &quot;Senate Report debunks &quot;Consensus&quot;&quot;, though, as you will correctly respond, perhaps there may have been some overlap in respect of the U.S. witnesses.

May I thank you in return for the discussion which I do not find tedious but rather necessary in helping to rid the RSA of a pernicious untruth which, promoted by a not-quite-dead government, is steadily destroying the fabric of our British economy. Let us stick to support of the Arts and Industry and drop the insidious &quot;green&quot; political infiltration which is creeping in to a formerly respectable, open-mnided and learned society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, William, for your correction which I am happy to accept: I concede that only 31068 US scientists have expressed their scepticism of The UN-IPCC&#8217;s approach to climate change, rather than the 31072 I claimed. To these of course, we must add those &#8220;over 400 Prominent Scientists&#8221; from 25 different countries who gave evidence on oath to the U.S Senate Environment &amp; Public Works Committee released in full (141 pages) on 20 December 2007 under the title &#8220;Senate Report debunks &#8220;Consensus&#8221;", though, as you will correctly respond, perhaps there may have been some overlap in respect of the U.S. witnesses.</p>
<p>May I thank you in return for the discussion which I do not find tedious but rather necessary in helping to rid the RSA of a pernicious untruth which, promoted by a not-quite-dead government, is steadily destroying the fabric of our British economy. Let us stick to support of the Arts and Industry and drop the insidious &#8220;green&#8221; political infiltration which is creeping in to a formerly respectable, open-mnided and learned society.</p>
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		<title>By: William Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/politics/green-policies-green-papers-and-why-its-worth-listening-to-a-dying-government/comment-page-1/#comment-2705</link>
		<dc:creator>William Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/?p=2086#comment-2705</guid>
		<description>The famous Oregon Petition was originally created in 1999 and the 31,000 signatories have built up over 10 years since then. This is the one in which signatories were exposed as including one Dr Geri Halliwell who appears twice in the list, along with Dr Perry Mason, and Michael J. Fox.

A petition is not peer reviewed science. Fred Singer is, indeed a climate scientist, but his views are not generally supported by the mass of his peers, though they have been supported by some US TV weathermen. As I said earlier, there is not a single significant scientific body worldwide which dissents with the IPCC thesis.

Thanks for the discussion, but it would probably be better to draw a halt to this discussion now lest we become tedious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The famous Oregon Petition was originally created in 1999 and the 31,000 signatories have built up over 10 years since then. This is the one in which signatories were exposed as including one Dr Geri Halliwell who appears twice in the list, along with Dr Perry Mason, and Michael J. Fox.</p>
<p>A petition is not peer reviewed science. Fred Singer is, indeed a climate scientist, but his views are not generally supported by the mass of his peers, though they have been supported by some US TV weathermen. As I said earlier, there is not a single significant scientific body worldwide which dissents with the IPCC thesis.</p>
<p>Thanks for the discussion, but it would probably be better to draw a halt to this discussion now lest we become tedious.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/politics/green-policies-green-papers-and-why-its-worth-listening-to-a-dying-government/comment-page-1/#comment-2701</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/?p=2086#comment-2701</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry, William, to have mentioned 1998 but this was the peak year chosen by the warmists to launch their stampede to renewables based on &quot;decades of warming&quot;. If it were &quot;anomalous&quot;, because of an El Nino contribution, then I would happily settle for the alternative conclusion that average global temperature has peaked &quot;anomalously&quot; and now fallen back to the long-term average. All the reliable satellite data agree on this as you will find out if you consult records available from the Hadley Centre, from NASA and from the University of Colorado.

This contrasts with the predictions of models used by the UN-IPCC which predicted increase in carbon dioxide content of the atmosphere (correct) matched by a concomitant increase in global average temperature (incorrect). Since CO2 did increase but global temperature fell back to the average, then CO2 is not the cause of any previously-observed warming. Scientists now predominantly associate such rises &amp; falls of global temperature with the cyclic solar activity which incidentally explains the Roman and Medieval warm periods, the Little Ice Age and so on back for many thousands of years.

I am sure that the New Scientist and other popular science mags contain commissioned articles debunking the many climate-change myths but the fundamental satellite temperature observations stated above have not been &quot;explained&quot;. Since we are trading references, a good, readable account of the current scientific view is given by Roger Helmer MEP in a May 2009 report of the Bruges Group to the European Parliament entitled &quot;Cool Thinking on Climate Change: Why the EU&#039;s climate alarmism is both mistaken and dangerous&quot;.

For a more detailed analysis of where the UN-IPCC went wrong and a reworking of its data to reach correct conclusions, it is still difficult to better &quot;Nature, not Human Activity, rules the Climate&quot; by climatologist Dr Fred S. Singer and his collaborators dated March 2008. Having considered the evidence, 31072 American scientists, including several Nobel Prize winners, signed the Oregon Petition in May 2008 which stated inter alia that:-

&quot;There is no convincing scientific evidence than human release of carbon dioxide, methane or other greenhouse gas is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth&#039;s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth&#039;s climate&quot;

Concerning the vaunted melting of the Arctic and those &quot;endangered&quot; polar bears whose numbers have increased from an estimated 6000 to at least 50000 since the shooting them from aircraft was banned in the 1960s, the Arctic Sea Ice News &amp; Analysis May 4 2009 of the National Snow and Ice Data Center stated:-

&quot;Arctic sea ice extent declined quite slowly in April; as a result, total ice extent is now close to the mean extent for the reference period (1979 to 2000)&quot;.

NASA figures for mean global temperature 2008-9 have recently been published and again show a slight fall. Predicted figures for major hurricanes, expected by IPCC commentators to cause widespread devastation have actually indicated a benign period or relative tranquillity. You can obtain data from Lloyds and other global insurer sites

Sadly there is such quasi-religious fervour, combined with opportunist industrial acceptance of hefty subsidies on offer from gullible politicians together with the ludicrous trading of carbon credits, that the warmist juggernaut is going to be difficult to halt. However I believe that it is not the function of a learned society like the RSA to fuel the flames of our own economy&#039;s funeral pyre.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry, William, to have mentioned 1998 but this was the peak year chosen by the warmists to launch their stampede to renewables based on &#8220;decades of warming&#8221;. If it were &#8220;anomalous&#8221;, because of an El Nino contribution, then I would happily settle for the alternative conclusion that average global temperature has peaked &#8220;anomalously&#8221; and now fallen back to the long-term average. All the reliable satellite data agree on this as you will find out if you consult records available from the Hadley Centre, from NASA and from the University of Colorado.</p>
<p>This contrasts with the predictions of models used by the UN-IPCC which predicted increase in carbon dioxide content of the atmosphere (correct) matched by a concomitant increase in global average temperature (incorrect). Since CO2 did increase but global temperature fell back to the average, then CO2 is not the cause of any previously-observed warming. Scientists now predominantly associate such rises &amp; falls of global temperature with the cyclic solar activity which incidentally explains the Roman and Medieval warm periods, the Little Ice Age and so on back for many thousands of years.</p>
<p>I am sure that the New Scientist and other popular science mags contain commissioned articles debunking the many climate-change myths but the fundamental satellite temperature observations stated above have not been &#8220;explained&#8221;. Since we are trading references, a good, readable account of the current scientific view is given by Roger Helmer MEP in a May 2009 report of the Bruges Group to the European Parliament entitled &#8220;Cool Thinking on Climate Change: Why the EU&#8217;s climate alarmism is both mistaken and dangerous&#8221;.</p>
<p>For a more detailed analysis of where the UN-IPCC went wrong and a reworking of its data to reach correct conclusions, it is still difficult to better &#8220;Nature, not Human Activity, rules the Climate&#8221; by climatologist Dr Fred S. Singer and his collaborators dated March 2008. Having considered the evidence, 31072 American scientists, including several Nobel Prize winners, signed the Oregon Petition in May 2008 which stated inter alia that:-</p>
<p>&#8220;There is no convincing scientific evidence than human release of carbon dioxide, methane or other greenhouse gas is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth&#8217;s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth&#8217;s climate&#8221;</p>
<p>Concerning the vaunted melting of the Arctic and those &#8220;endangered&#8221; polar bears whose numbers have increased from an estimated 6000 to at least 50000 since the shooting them from aircraft was banned in the 1960s, the Arctic Sea Ice News &amp; Analysis May 4 2009 of the National Snow and Ice Data Center stated:-</p>
<p>&#8220;Arctic sea ice extent declined quite slowly in April; as a result, total ice extent is now close to the mean extent for the reference period (1979 to 2000)&#8221;.</p>
<p>NASA figures for mean global temperature 2008-9 have recently been published and again show a slight fall. Predicted figures for major hurricanes, expected by IPCC commentators to cause widespread devastation have actually indicated a benign period or relative tranquillity. You can obtain data from Lloyds and other global insurer sites</p>
<p>Sadly there is such quasi-religious fervour, combined with opportunist industrial acceptance of hefty subsidies on offer from gullible politicians together with the ludicrous trading of carbon credits, that the warmist juggernaut is going to be difficult to halt. However I believe that it is not the function of a learned society like the RSA to fuel the flames of our own economy&#8217;s funeral pyre.</p>
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		<title>By: William Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/politics/green-policies-green-papers-and-why-its-worth-listening-to-a-dying-government/comment-page-1/#comment-2688</link>
		<dc:creator>William Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/?p=2086#comment-2688</guid>
		<description>@ Derek Smith. &quot;Global temperatures have been falling since 1998&quot;? Pause your indignation for a second to reflect on why this magical year 1998 is invoked by this argument - more of a meme really -  that has been popular on the internet for the last three years. Why not 1997? Or 1999? 

Because if you use those years the data shows something rather different. If you&#039;re serious about your argument, don&#039;t start by basing your data on an anomalous year.

For that matter, the data from 1998-2008 doesn&#039;t even show that global temperatures &lt;i&gt;have&lt;/i&gt; been falling since the temperature spike year of 1998. You might be interested in this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14527-climate-myths-global-warming-stopped-in-1998.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;New Scientist article debunking the myth. &lt;/a&gt;

Since 2007, there has &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;not been a single major scientific body worldwide&lt;/a&gt; that dissents with the IPCC  thesis that global warming is a) happening, and b) manmade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Derek Smith. &#8220;Global temperatures have been falling since 1998&#8243;? Pause your indignation for a second to reflect on why this magical year 1998 is invoked by this argument &#8211; more of a meme really &#8211;  that has been popular on the internet for the last three years. Why not 1997? Or 1999? </p>
<p>Because if you use those years the data shows something rather different. If you&#8217;re serious about your argument, don&#8217;t start by basing your data on an anomalous year.</p>
<p>For that matter, the data from 1998-2008 doesn&#8217;t even show that global temperatures <i>have</i> been falling since the temperature spike year of 1998. You might be interested in this <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14527-climate-myths-global-warming-stopped-in-1998.html" rel="nofollow">New Scientist article debunking the myth. </a></p>
<p>Since 2007, there has <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change" rel="nofollow">not been a single major scientific body worldwide</a> that dissents with the IPCC  thesis that global warming is a) happening, and b) manmade.</p>
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		<title>By: matthewtaylor</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/politics/green-policies-green-papers-and-why-its-worth-listening-to-a-dying-government/comment-page-1/#comment-2687</link>
		<dc:creator>matthewtaylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/?p=2086#comment-2687</guid>
		<description>Hi Derek - it&#039;s Barbara here, Matthew&#039;s PA, just responding to your query about the moderation process.  When people post responses for the first time, Matthew / I have to approve them - I normally check the site every couple of hours - hence the delay in your post appearing.  Once the first post has been approved, that&#039;s it - you should be able to post without waiting for moderation from now on.  And in case you are wondering if there is any censorship - the only thing we have ever done that for is a &#039;video nasty&#039;!  Hope this helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Derek &#8211; it&#8217;s Barbara here, Matthew&#8217;s PA, just responding to your query about the moderation process.  When people post responses for the first time, Matthew / I have to approve them &#8211; I normally check the site every couple of hours &#8211; hence the delay in your post appearing.  Once the first post has been approved, that&#8217;s it &#8211; you should be able to post without waiting for moderation from now on.  And in case you are wondering if there is any censorship &#8211; the only thing we have ever done that for is a &#8216;video nasty&#8217;!  Hope this helps.</p>
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