42 Comments on I love politicians

JamieC on Thu, 13th Jan 2011 1:32 pm


I suppose the sad thing to note about this article is that you have to explain in some detail how we could possibly love politicians in any shape or form!

The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of our politicians, in my humble opinion and experience, are actually politicians in order to help people, to improve their communities and to make the world a better place.

What the site would need is a focus on the human aspect of politicians, reconnecting them with the stories of their constituents. I always remember a democratic education session I ran which involved Ann McKetchin MP talking about her experience of the Stockwell disaster in her constituency in Glasgow – as with the Obama speech in Arizona, it was a very moving and very human moment, quite at odds with the normal portrayal of politicians.

So yeah, let’s see some more politician loving – if nothing else it will force them to respond with some love for us!

GringoPeruano on Thu, 13th Jan 2011 2:50 pm


Great idea. (seriously!)

But I would suggest that it should also focus on their individual political achievements.

It may lead to more politicans wanting to demonstrate their positive achievements. (and thus individually doing more positive “things”).

However, these achievements would need to be audited independantly – no “half truths/misleading sound bytes” which is what we largely get today; this will not be easily achieved.

If not well audited, it will just become another oulet/medium for politicians’ sound bytes and quickly fall into disrepute.

Best of luck.

Richard Coates
London

Cynic? Well, “Yes!”, but prepared to give them an opportunity to demonstrate I’m wrong!

Like you, I believe that most politicians do enter politics “to improve society” – but something soon goes wrong and they “follow the party line, become career politicians and are more motivated by their personal ambitions”.

Do any recent names spring to mind?

Obnoxio The Clown on Thu, 13th Jan 2011 3:02 pm


The only problem with your idea is that it’s stupid.

Obama is a Chicago machine politician, ruthless, unprincipled and amoral, who happens to have the talent of reading off a teleprompter well. That doesn’t make him a good politician.

And the Rudd thing actually just undermines your whole argument: “look, a politician doing something that any normal human being would do anyway.” This deserves so much praise that you actually want to build a website around it?

There is no such thing as a good politician: they are all in it for the gain or the self-aggrandizement, or worse, to make us all live how they think the little people should live.

OK, so there is such a thing as a good politician — a dead one. But that’s not something that deserves a website, is it?

Paul on Thu, 13th Jan 2011 3:53 pm


I agree with Polly Toynbee: How on earth can you expect people’s views of politicians to improve if they LIE!
If you allow a photo taken next to a picture of your signature on a pledge NOT to increase student fees, then TRIPLE them, how can people keep faith in the political process?
This is Polly’s rant….
“Three days before the election, Cameron said on the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show, “any cabinet minister … who comes to me and says ‘Here are my plans’ and they involve frontline reductions, they’ll be sent straight back to their department to go away and think again”. Yet £81bn in cuts now rain down on frontline services.

Would VAT rise? A month before the election, Cameron said: “Our plans involve cutting wasteful spending … our plans don’t involve an increase in VAT.”

As for the NHS, “We will stop top-down reorganisations of the NHS,” said the coalition agreement, yet now what health secretary Andrew Lansley calls his “revolution” rolls in. The coalition promise that “we will guarantee that health spending increases in real terms” has gone the same way. Two months before the election, Cameron eulogised universal child benefit: “I wouldn’t change child benefit, I wouldn’t means test it, I don’t think that’s a good idea.” On education maintenance allowances, Michael Gove said, just before the election: “Ed Balls keeps saying that we are committed to scrapping EMA. I have never said this. We won’t.” On tax credits, the promise was to cut them only for families on £50,000, but the budget book shows families with an income of just £30,000 lose all credits. Liam Fox promised “a bigger army for a safer Britain”, but it now loses 7,000 soldiers.

prison for anyone carrying a knife;
no cuts to the navy;
keeping the child trust fund for the poorest third of families;
no hospital closures; 3,000 more midwives;
a two-year council tax freeze
bank bonuses………”

David on Thu, 13th Jan 2011 4:35 pm


Maybe the site’s focus should be on identifying and praising the politicians who don’t lie and aren’t corrupt
If you create a list of all the promises that have been broken over the past year, you’d be forgiven for getting a little depressed…. It really is that bad…

On the topic of politics. I don’t think enough is done to attract people into a career of politics. Maybe the site could help with that.
If I could turn back the clock by 10 years, that’s certainly where I’d want to direct my education and career. It’s a shame that it took me 10 years to understand that – another failing of our education system I guess.

RantinRab on Thu, 13th Jan 2011 6:34 pm


Ironically enough, Rudd helped create the flood. Or at least failed to help lessen the devastation. See my latest blog post.

matthew taylor on Thu, 13th Jan 2011 7:01 pm


Well, this has certainly stirred up some strong opinions. As well as these comments I had an e-mail from someone who has bought the domain name and plans to take the idea forward and a radio programme that wants to do a feature on Saturday. Thanks for the comments.

Oh, and in case Obnoxio complains about censorship I should admit to removing the swear words from his post. Fancy writing an obscene rant about politicians on the web – if only I was so radical and brave

Stephen on Thu, 13th Jan 2011 8:09 pm


Don’t have much to add to the debate other than to congratulate a fantastic idea. We really are in danger as a society of allowing the media to totally destroy any sense of hope in what politics can do. Quite simply our post war world has been transformed because of politics; because of the messy, frustrating and at times corrupt process of humans coming together to try and attempt the art of compromise. Yes, many politicians have screwed up badly and some are rightly feeling the consequences of that. And by coming together generations of politicians have also created some of the most extraordinary ways of working to meet our common needs in the history of humanity. There is so much that is wrong with the system and individuals, and so much and so many that are genuinely heroic. I will certainly support the site.

Caitriona on Thu, 13th Jan 2011 9:05 pm


I love this idea because of a rule that has served me well:
people live up or down to the expectations you have of them.

G on Thu, 13th Jan 2011 9:09 pm


A member of family was a politician for many years (and whilst I’m obviously biased) she only ever carried out the role with a strong sense of duty to her office and constituents.

Over the years I met lots of her colleagues and they were invariably similar types of people.

The way politics is often reported in a black or white, shrill fashion often dismays me.

Each time a politician is vilified for a ‘gaffe’ I feel it once agains narrows the pool of people who would be willing to represent their peers in parliament. Why would you bother going through the rigmarole of getting elected when you can be a shouty columnist or reporter?

So yes, I love politicians too!

youDick on Thu, 13th Jan 2011 10:24 pm


obamas speech was nothing special,you sycophantic tool.Empty words from another empty suit.

Joan Keating on Thu, 13th Jan 2011 10:38 pm


Sat my kids down tonight to watch the Obama speech. While their dad and I wiped tears away watching it (we have a nine year old daughter) I have to say that it did nothing for the level of civility between my three at bed time (the phrase ‘tub of lard’ was directed by one of my boys at his sister.) If you’re looking for a UK politician fitting some of your criteria the name that springs to mind (particularly in the light of what has happened to Gabby Giffords) is Stephen Timms. I don’t know him personally – he is MP for the neighbouring borough to ours but he always comes over as fundamentally decent. And just before Christmas when he presented achievement awards to my son and some other local children he really made an effort with them – not easy with monosyllabic teenage boys.

Andy Luke on Fri, 14th Jan 2011 1:08 am


Stephen Timms: most famous for being stabbed. The motivation: that he backed the illegal invasion of Iraq. The perpetrator: a hard-working student who simply cracked.

(Timms didn’t bomb Iraqi civilisation but helped push through the idea that those who would would get a decent paycheque, elevated respect and shiny medals)

Politicians are not terrorists but the collective consensus is that they’re certainly making terror a functional currency. Perhaps good politicians on this site you propose might be those who have campaigned and successfully resolved amoral and illegal actions by their predecessors? As a warning to the next ten generations of politicians that some favours come at too high a price.

Odysseus Mourtzouchos on Fri, 14th Jan 2011 4:59 am


I always supported the idea of positive reinforcement and encouraging great actions instead of focusing on judging the bad stuff.

However, I would strongly recommend that such a website would focus on real actions and achievements and not speeches and promises. No matter how touching words can be, we all know that when it comes to politicians they rarely come from heart. Statements they don’t really believe and promises they never actually keep is the vast majority of political speeches, isn’t it? And as Paul states, not only they don’t keep their promises, but often they go to the complete opposite direction.

But, lets say we focus on great actions and young inspiring politicians – let people know that some do exist – I’m still sceptic about it.
Don’t we need the complete picture of a politician to judge his greatness? We can’t assume that a politician who has done a few inspiring things never did anything bad too. In fact, many of them try to have a balance between their corrupt behaviour and their good actions – and of course try and give more publicity to the good stuff. Isn’t there a possibility that a website such as this will become a tool for politicians to create a false good image of themselves to the public while having a dark corrupted side well hidden?

If this was to be done, I would only include full profiles of inspiring politicians. The ones that have been faithful, the ones that had been wanting to help all along – not single actions. We should never encourage people to judge without knowing the big picture.

Nice idea, just please be careful with it!
od

Sam Mclean on Fri, 14th Jan 2011 10:10 am


There is a very big difference between being critically minded (very ‘good’!) and just cynical (very ‘bad’!). One tends to cultivate positive action, the other a kind of passive withdrawal and paralysing solipsism.

And is Obama really just good at reading a teleprompter? Get real.

David on Fri, 14th Jan 2011 10:19 am


I’m sure the majority of politicians are in it for the greater good, but good intentions are not enough!!!

There’s too many problems in modern-day politics, and I don’t see many politicians trying to fix them. Instead, they’re forced to compromise for the sake of their party far too regularly, because they want to keep their jobs.

There’s also the crippling fact that politicians are products of our education system, meaning they’re already flawed before they even begin their career.

Politicians should stick to politics, and leave policy-making to the scientists and social-psychologists.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, education is the answer to the world’s problems. Start teaching the right things and the world will fix itself.

@Andy Luke: not meaning to de-rail anything here. But if you want to challenge your conviction that the Iraq invasion wasn’t justified. Read into what Christopher Hitchens has to say, I consider him to be the authoritative voice on the topic.

Livy on Fri, 14th Jan 2011 12:11 pm


Sammy Mac:

Exactly. You can be a highly skeptical person who can think critically about the issues without being a cynic; cynicism, I’ve always maintained, is little more than an emotional disease. Emotions being addictive, we tend to do whatever we can to remain in the state we’re in, even if that means wilfully diving into an endlessly descending spiral of spiritual bankruptcy.

Basically, they know they’re doing it. And they’re mildly proud of themselves. But there is an issue with Obama. The problem with a lot of his supporters is they have an equivalent mindset, only when it revolves around ‘hope’ it means your spiral of self deception goes up, not down. Campaigns attract two political archetypes; the cultist, terrifyingly unable to think critically about the issues, and the careerist, who is unwilling.

Caitriona:

You rock.

Obnoxio the Clown:

Get your name on a ballot paper and stand, the requirements are not what you might think, so show us all how it’s done.

Decisions are made by people who show up.

Fool.

MT:

Despite all I’ve said above, and the fact that my cold, black, skeptical heart is often widely wrenched open by nice sentiments I tend to read here (a few of which I wish occurred to me first), there are a ridiculous number of practical reasons for why this would be a terrible idea, so I’m left feeling hesitant to list them. They must have all struck you too. Any chance we can have bit more from you on this, and what made you think of it?

The issue of youth participation is a separate one, and all you lefties are entitled to call me an evil hypocrite for this…but… MT, you don’t want too many young people following politics. Really. If you look at countries around the world where the majority of young people have an active interest in politics, are very well informed, follow the process stories and are passionate about the minutiae of policy and then spend their free time discussing it all, it usually means they live somewhere like Tel Aviv. Forgive me for being crude and insensitive, but it usually means their country is F*cked.

Livy

Emma on Fri, 14th Jan 2011 12:35 pm


I have grown up with a parent as a politician and it dismays me to see the effect that the behaviour of a few can have on the many. From my experience most politicians are in the business because of a passionate belief in what they think is right. otherwise why on earth would anyone want to do it? So that they can have their names dragged through the mud on a regular basis. In most cases I’d say it was a thankless task and very hard work. That said clearly there are some who have behaved incredibly badly. But we should tar them all with the same brush. We should be celebrating them when they do good things. Which is far more often than the British press gives them credit for.

David on Fri, 14th Jan 2011 2:24 pm


Sorry to repeat myself, but I think it needs repetition following some of the comments above.

Yes, the vast majority of politicians are genuinely good people.
But, good intentions are no excuse for ignorance.

What about creating a website that aims to educate politicians? They certainly need all the help they can get.

carl allen on Fri, 14th Jan 2011 3:29 pm


I hate politicians who deem themselves so important re

I have just been e-mailed that I must present photo ID to attend Monday’s lecture given by a senior politician at the RSA.

Regretfully, I will not attend.

Twisted Root on Fri, 14th Jan 2011 10:10 pm


‘By now you are probably thinking I have gone mad.’

Not mad, just delusional.

rhian on Sat, 15th Jan 2011 1:33 am


that is a really positive, ‘nice’, uplifting idea and normally i’m all for such things.
But what with the current climate, the aftershocks of the expenses debacle and david chaytor and eric illsley’s scheming faces still fresh in my mind, the thought of the words love and politicians in the same domain name truly makes me feel physically queasy; & I am sure most of the British public feel the same. Yes, maybe all the more reason for it as you say.. but i couldn’t bring myself to do it & i’m pretty good at making quick websites. i prefer the idea of a Victorian freak show type of site, where the public can make entries under the ‘good politician’ column and the ‘evil politician’ column except the evil one would be too long for the average webpage and would require some kind of new technology to cope with the demand…sigh
i recall what William Morris said in his Utopian novel ‘News from Nowhere’ about the redevelopment of the the Thames and surrounding area – that the Houses of Parliament proved most useful for storing the city’s horse manure… sorry but that just sprang to mind for some strange reason..

Brian Hughes on Sun, 16th Jan 2011 12:22 pm


You could try a parallel site called:
being a politician is not as easy as it looks.com

Good luck

Brian Hughes on Sun, 16th Jan 2011 12:26 pm


And maybe “quite admire some” might be better than “love” in your web site name.

Paul on Sun, 16th Jan 2011 3:19 pm


The current government has used the excuse of being a coalition to tear up the manifestos of both parties and radically reorganise the NHS and put up tuition fees threefold! These are massive policies without a clear mandate. There’s got to be SOME correspondence between the party’s manifestos and what they do when they win an election. Politicians should view what they are doing as an honour and a privilege rather than a career option, but they are our servants and nothing more. I agree their must be some synchrony of the talk and the walk and integrity of both.

Another way to restore the reputation of politicians, avoid more street violence and restore a political system that works would be for politicians to become more responsive to forms of lawful protest.

A million people took to the streets peacefully in opposition to the Iraq War, but they went ahead and bombed Bagdhad anyway. A few people went wild in Trafalgar Square against the poll tax and the government caved. The message to the people is clear – media coverage and political change only follows if people are violent.

Adam on Mon, 17th Jan 2011 6:42 pm


So, 2 examples from the last 24 hours. Great.

Sadly, no examples from within a few thousand miles of Westminster.

David on Mon, 17th Jan 2011 6:54 pm


@Carl Allen
“I hate politicians who deem themselves so important re
I have just been e-mailed that I must present photo ID to attend Monday’s lecture given by a senior politician at the RSA.
Regretfully, I will not attend.”

You just missed out on the David Cameron talk, unlucky!

carl allen on Mon, 17th Jan 2011 9:53 pm


“Grow up”, David (just kidding!)

Having heard Blair and Brown on separate occasions and leaving most annoyed on both occasions, one more annoyance would have indeed been to hear Cameron, another politician.

mas on Tue, 18th Jan 2011 12:43 am


I don’t think it’s a bad idea albeit one that looks destined to attract considerable amounts of flack and depressingly cynical comments but no reason not to give it a go.

I’ve worked with several Youth Parliament groups and similar youth initiatives and to be frank in just about all cases it’s depressing and scary to see the kind of young people that show an interest in politics. Full of themselves, full of cr@p, lacking in substance and any interest in genuinely being representative, and for those ‘elected’ to Youth Parliaments the added bonus of receiving training from the political parties. Therefore if it in anyway helps to either put off those young people from politics or recruit young people with more substance, good!

Livy on Tue, 18th Jan 2011 9:37 am


Mas:

…to be frank in just about all cases it’s depressing and scary to see the kind of young people that show an interest in politics. Full of themselves, full of cr@p, lacking in substance…

That totally cracked me up!

matthew taylor on Tue, 18th Jan 2011 7:08 pm


Thanks all (apart from the abusive). I will encoruage the student who has the domain name to read this chain before deciding whether to try to create a site. I agree absolutely that the site needs to be about real actions not about contested policy claims. The modest aim is not to have an argument about politics but simply to demonstrate that politicians can – sometimes – be inspiring and public spirited people.

mas on Tue, 18th Jan 2011 8:24 pm


Good luck to them. As a starting point I’d seriously reconsider the name which almost invites abuse. It could still be put to good use, maybe for a dating site for those with a political fetish?….

Willy on Wed, 19th Jan 2011 4:43 pm


Paul

Can you, or anyone else here, please explain to me what all the fuss is about the university fees.

I don’t live in the UK anymore and have to pay for my kid’s university education… I mean go to the bank, borrow the money, and then pay back the loan, whether said kid manages to find a job or not – the bank still wants it’s money back.

David on Thu, 20th Jan 2011 11:29 am


@Willy – Education should be a fundamental human right, like healthcare, food & water.

…We still have to pay for food & water? Oh…

Paul on Thu, 20th Jan 2011 12:13 pm


Willy – I’m trying hard not to lose it here!

These posts are about the integrity of politicians. The Lib Dems gained massive votes in student areas (and from me, a 55 year old parent of three teenage children) by signing a pledge NOT to increase student fees. During the election they also made great play on being a party that could be relied upon to act with integrity. Then when in power they allow the coalition to TRIPLE students fees.

Don’t you think this action undermines our trust in politicians?

If you say no, then presumably your faith in the likelihood of politicians keeping their promises is already at rock bottom.

On fees themselves, £30k worth of debt is a huge burden for someone in their early 20s to carry. With fees at £3000 a year, our family reorganised our finances to ensure that none of our children finished uni with a big debt. It just not within my means to help out my children now, so I’m not sure if my youngest will be able to go, despite being the brightest in the family.

My own view is that it is not in the country’s interest to put any financial obstacles in the way of people trying to better themselves through education. Higher education should be free and grant funded as it was for my generation.

We just need to tax the rich more and tighten up on tax dodging and we can pay for it and avoid these damaging cuts.

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