7 Comments on Voting – an overrated activity

Susmita on Thu, 4th Jun 2009 4:12 pm


“Firstly, voting in elections is no more than an opportunity every few years to get rid of a party we feel has failed in government and replace it with one we dislike slightly less.”

couldn’t agree more Mr T.

Re: the supermarket idea, totally agree with that too, and it raises an interesting point. If we had to shop at the same supermarket for 4 years, consumer law would still apply and we could get a refund on faulty goods.

Sadly I don’t think I’ll be entitled to any refunds from the current government.

Pete B on Thu, 4th Jun 2009 4:33 pm


‘But with a diverse, disengaged yet demanding, often incoherent local public opinion who and what are representatives representing?’

These points could, of course, be turned into a solid argument for localising democracy so that representatives are representing fewer constituents. But that would not adequately overcome the problem that certain issues – such as environmental degradation – can only be effectively addressed at the national, European or even global levels.

Perhaps a principle of making decisions at the most local level which is fair, feasible and effective for the particular issue in hand might be an effective way of better reflecting people’s views in the formulation of policies which effect them? This would mean that the person charged with representing people’s views on a particular issue would be as close to the appropriate constituency as possible. However, I still think that this fails to completely overcome the fundamental problem of the relationship between representatives and their constituents.

A big obstacle to a more representative democracy which you don’t mention is the whipping of representatives by political parties. It virtually compels MPs to prioritise the demands of their party over those of their constituents. Were the party system to be either weakened or abandoned, the views of constituents with regards to particular issues would instantly shoot up an MP’s list of priorities.

Terence Eden on Sat, 6th Jun 2009 10:26 am


“an opportunity every few years to get rid of a party we feel has failed in government and replace it with one we dislike slightly less.”

Er… not quite. Hard as it is to believe, lots of people voted for the party in power at this election.
Don’t forget, the Tory’s victory in 1979 & Labour’s in 1997 were on the wave of massive public support. People weren’t choosing the lesser of two evils, they were promoting a party which, at the time, they liked.

“Imagine how popular supermarkets would be if we had to choose only one to go to”

You have a choice of governments. You really do. If you think your council tax is too high – move to a different area of the country. If you want free prescriptions & universities, move to Scotland. If you want the country being run by topless models, move to Italy. If none of the UK regions, or EU states suit you, try moving elsewhere.

It’s very interesting that lots of bloggers are caught up with the idea of the “Wisdom of Crowds” yet, when a decision goes against their prefered result they think the crowd or the process is somehow broken. I’m not picking on you specifically – I don’t know you well enough – but it’s something I’m seeing a lot of at the moment.

I think one of the success of the Obama administration is the fact that it has a lot of well informed & well educated “ordinary” people advising it. Rather than trying to reshape democracy from the outside, I think people should be joining existing political bodies and start reforming them from the inside.

T

Angus Bearn on Sun, 7th Jun 2009 8:41 pm


Well, to the slightly-better-than-nothing-at-all nature of elections you might add the vast public-sector industry of fake consutations. Familiar to every council tenant and leaseholder – and every hospital patient – this involves pretty much telling people what you are going to do anyway, and then collecting EOPS data on those foolish enough to respond to prove the public have been ‘engaged’.

A rotten example (as if you haven’t already remembered several yourself) is the recent proposals on licensing private landlords. A more fatuous and counter-productive initiative is hard to imagine, but the consultation is self-congratulatory fait accompli. Putrid.

It would be better, seriously, if those concocting these idiotic schemes simply said, “We’re going to do it anyway, so get stuffed”.

matthewtaylor on Mon, 8th Jun 2009 8:38 am


Hi Terence

Thanks for this. I agree that elections are sometimes a positive expression of aspiration. My point is that the mandate given to politicians by a general election victory is very blunt. We need to develop credible and powerful forms of deliberation and participation as well. The kind of process involved in plumping for one guy/Party over another is different to the process of policy deliberation – both need to be parts of our democracy.

Paul Evans on Tue, 9th Jun 2009 8:27 am


I’m not sure I can go along with this:

“A new politics involves finally recognising that representative democracy in today’s society is necessary but very far from being sufficient as the basis for public engagement in collective decision making’”

The way you describe the representative mechanism is very concise, but I think it would be fair to say that it is a mechanism that few existing MPs would actually recognise. The problem is not that ‘representative democracy is failing’ – it is that we don’t have – and never really have had – a proper system of representative government.

New communication and convening technologies offer us great opportunities to address this problem and supplant a lot of the roles that were played by party bureaucrats.

The nature of political parties and their selection processes mean that we often simply get the latest nominee from a political caste being shoed into a safe seat. The high bar of loyalty that has to be got over brings with it MPs who beleive that all of their communication with voters has to go through the party centre anyway.

Any other model apart from representative democracy hands unacceptable levels of power to shrill ‘active citizens’, to commercial pressure groups and newspaper proprietors at the expense of the huge majortiy of people who take little or no interest in day-to-day politics (often, the people with the most valuable input).

If we are now to have a focus from The Cabinet on Democratic Renewal, I really hope that it’s starting point is to go back to the Burke / Mill model of democracy and to remodel our current system in a way that ensures that we have a representative system rather than the current sham.

Humphrey Pring on Tue, 9th Jun 2009 9:31 pm


I was very interested in the work and conclusions of the Power Commission in 2006, chaired by Helena Kennedy ["An independent inquiry into Britain's Democracy"]. I am one of many who feel very concerned that our democratic system has atrophied, and feel trapped in a political process that is no longer fit for purpose but which could only be changed by the political parties that have no real interest in changing the status quo.

I was disappointed that the eventual Power to the People report didn’t seem to make much of a difference. But the current crisis sparked by the abuses of expenses and allowances gives me renewed hope that the Commission’s excellent analysis of the problems, and proposed improvements (not all of which I agree with), could again move centre stage.

What I struggle with is – where is the legitimate mechanism whereby “the system” can be re-designed in a way that is not controlled by those who have sought to maintain the current arrangements,i.e. the main parties, the political elite? I feel that some kind of large and open national deliberative process is required in which these complex issues can be explored, and in which solutions (and the trade offs between them) can be put together and balanced. I know that the PMSU has looked in detail at deliberative mechanisms, including citizens juries (one of several approaches).

Could there be some super Commission comprised of independents from the Lords and the Commons to guide such a process ?

I really hope that the RSA is intending to play a major role in this process at this time.

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