18 Comments on Ringo, Paul, my big toe and meta-cognition

Joe on Thu, 9th Apr 2009 11:43 am


Interesting how TM is claimed to be proven and something to inflict on our children, yet there would be short shrift given to celebrities claiming the same thing about other religions. Imagine someone saying this about Islam…

matthewtaylor on Thu, 9th Apr 2009 1:19 pm


Hi Joe

You may not agree but this is from the David Lynch site:

” The TM technique is not a religion or philosophy and does not involve concentration, control of the mind, or change in lifestyle ”

I mediate and find it useful and I don’t have a religious bone in my body. Why should exercise for the mind be fundamentally different to exercise for the body?

Jonathan on Thu, 9th Apr 2009 1:38 pm


I think this is a really important area and undoubtedly knowing more about behaviour and the brain offers us some vital insights into how to live well.

But it’s interesting that it’s still so difficult to formulate a compelling central proposition. I think there are a number of questions you still need to answer to do this effectively:

1) What’s the difference between consciousness as illusion and consciousness as fact? You say that we exaggerate the role of conscious thought but we do normally think that we are conscious. Isn’t that enough? Isn’t that what consciousness is? If not, why does this matter?

2) What’s the difference between meta-cognition and simple cognition? If we can think about thinking there must be some thinking going on? Your implication is that we can consciously decide to alter our programming, but haven’t we then just relocated cognition a little without fundamentally changing the rules of engagement?

3) How exactly does our understanding of the mechanics of the brain help us to alter our automatic behaviours? It seems intuitive that it can (or could or will be able to) but given that our understanding of neuroscience is still relatively in its infancy it’s hard to be precise about this (and it’s something that neuroscientists are cautious about, perhaps over cautious?). Most of the ways in which we currently seek to alter our mental function, such as mediation for example, are informed by ancient practices based on trial and error not on modern neurological insights.

4) I’m not sure I completely buy it, but I’ve got a lot of time for the philosophical objection that Ray Tallis raised last year: given that consciousness is the single most apparent phenomena to us, the one thing, in many ways, that we actually know, is it not odd to conclude that it doesn’t exist simply because we cannot ‘find’ it in the brain? If I can’t find my keys where I thought they would be I don’t conclude that I must have imagined the existence of the keys!

5) What’s fundamentally new in all this? What can we do that we couldn’t do before? It’s famously hard to define philosophy but “thinking about thinking” is pretty close and we’ve been doing this for millennia. Does our current understanding of the brain simply help us to do this in a more refined way rather than fundamentally changing the terms of the debate?

Perhaps the problem lies with the need to have a central thesis at all. Your work at the RSA has highlighted repeatedly that there are all sorts of specific, practical ways in which understanding how our brains work can help us build mental resilience, change our behaviours and lead better lives, but does it help us to try and coral these together into a coherent theoretical proposition? We may do better to try and develop our understanding of them in a piecemeal, cumulative way.

That doesn’t make such a good article of course and it doesn’t satisfy our craving for a grand narrative. But maybe that’s one of the mental quirks we should try and reprogramme?

Matthew Kalman on Thu, 9th Apr 2009 2:19 pm


The good news is… that your meditation practice might well help you grow into more mature ego stages too

Ken Wilber is fond of quoting this bit of research (on Transcendental Meditation):

“Less than 2% of the adult population scores at Jane Loevinger’s highest two stages of self-development (‘autonomous’ and ‘integrated’).

No practice…has been shown to substantially increase that percentage. With one exception: studies have shown that consistent meditation practice over a several-year period increases that percentage from 2% to an astonishing 38%….”

(Interesting too that increases in ‘Openness’ on the well-validated ‘Big 5′ model of personality correlates highly with increases in Loevinger’s ego level stages).

Interestingly, your brain science findings that we have much less in the way of conscious will than we all like to think we have – that we are far more ‘automatic’ etc – arguably accords more closely with the century-old ‘Fourth Way’ practices of GI Gurdjieff et al, than with meditation-based paths of growth.

Gurdjieff-inspired practices to (gradually) break free of automated habits are – covertly – at the heart of one of the most interesting contemporary approaches to leadership development: see Prof Bill Torbert’s book ‘Action Inquiry – The Secret of Timely and Transforming Leadership’ (2004).

Torbert also wrote an award-winning article in ‘Harvard Business Review’ about his findings on the 7 stages of leadership maturity (though I don’t think that article included discussion of Gurdjieff-inspired ‘action inquiry’ practices – which very much take place in the midst of life, rather than in quiet retreat from it).

Though Gurdjieff was a big fan of behaviourism, he did think we could break free of that, with practice – so we’re not permanently stuck in a ‘Groundhog Day’ reality of endlessly repeating habits (interestingly, the star of Groundhog Day – Bill Murray – is a ‘Fourth Way’ student!).

As we go deeper with self-observation more of the un-pretty stuff you mention – ”anxiety, self obsession and hyper activity”, “self righteous fury, embarrassment and denial” etc – is uncovered for us.

I think Gurdjieff called this experience seeing ‘the terror of the situation’ – which is all rather unedifying, and sometimes makes me want to take that other pill and get put back in the Matrix…

And I’ve probably only yet observed a small fraction of the ‘bad news’ (in myself) so far…

Aaargh….

Matthew Kalman

Joe on Thu, 9th Apr 2009 3:09 pm


Well y’know. If you don’t want to believe TM is a religion (with its ‘King of the World’) and other bizarre beliefs, that is up to you, I guess. But don’t try to teach this crap to my children.

Of course, one can meditate without TM, and depending on what is being taught, I might well agree it was useful in schools.

matthewtaylor on Thu, 9th Apr 2009 3:28 pm


Hi Joe

Always glad to get your comments – but why do you always seem to be in a bad mood (perhaps it’s the medium) Sounds like you know more about TM than me. It’s meditation without any mumbo jumbo that interests me

Have a good Easter

Tessy Britton on Thu, 9th Apr 2009 5:10 pm


Metacognition includes monitoring and directing our thinking processes, which is thought to give it an ‘executive control’ function, overseeing the underlying mechanisms of behaviour.

Theories and research around dual processing offer very promising ways forward in terms of understanding the differences between ‘affective immediate reactions’ and ‘thoughtful cognitive processes’ which require applying knowledge and experiences to interpret situations intelligently.

Roy Baumeister (one of my favourite researchers) et al write:

“maybe conscious emotion is inextricably intertwined with cognition, whereas automatically affective reactions require nothing more than a perception and an association.”

On the point of meditation, it is interesting that some research has shown that people with a good visceral self-awareness (i.e. able to detect when a small shock that is administered matches their own heartbeat) are also more likely to be sensitive and empathetic with other people. Our right front insula processes information about our physiology as well as our emotions. (Blakeslee and Blakeslee)

My own research on metacognition showed that information about how we work as human organisms (emotions, cognition, social dynamics etc) fundamentally enabled metacognitive monitoring. If we don’t know what we are looking for it is hard to be self-observant and self-reflective, using our emotional knowledge for good decision making, rather than for impulsive overreaction.

As Jonathan says “Perhaps the problem lies with the need to have a central thesis at all.”. The search for an overarching framework to incorporate so much new knowledge is still to be devised, but looking at new research on metacognition highlights that this work holds much promise in being able to draw together even seemingly divergent theories in a logical way.

Dr. Keith DeBoer on Thu, 9th Apr 2009 8:22 pm


If anyone is interested please go to this link: http://www.truthabouttm.org/truth/IndividualEffects/IsTMaReligion/ReligiousLeaders/index.cfm#Top

where you can read more than a dozen letters from religious leaders of all faiths who practice Transcendenal Meditation and find no conflict with their religious beliefs and practices. Peace!

MaJoHa on Thu, 9th Apr 2009 8:46 pm


If anyone is curious to learn about meditation there are some excellent classes just up the road from the RSA, off St Martins Lane.

http://www.lbc.org.uk/centrallondonmeditation.asp#dropin

Roger Pelizzari on Thu, 9th Apr 2009 9:29 pm


Greetings Mathew,
If you were practicing TM, you would NOT have any trouble fitting it in to your day because you would be experiencing real benefits. You’d only be tempted to meditate more.

Bottom line: All meditation is not the same. The reason the National Institutes of Health (NIH) have been funding TM for over 25 years is that it has proven itself to be far more effective than anything else, including “mindfulness”.

Since the 1970’s, when research on Transcendental Meditation began to appear, many other meditation and stress-management techniques have been invented but scientific analysis has separated the wheat from the chaff.

1. In the first major meta-analysis, nearly two decades of stress-related studies were compared statistically, with the results printed in the Journal of Clinical Psychology (Eppley et al 1989). These studies tested the effectiveness of every well-known meditation and relaxation technique, including Transcendental Meditation, other types of meditation, the much-researched progressive muscle relaxation technique, Benson’s relaxation response, and many others. In the results of all the tests together, the Transcendental Meditation technique reduced anxiety more than twice as much as any other technique (p<0.005). When Dr. Eppley restricted his analysis to only the best studies, Transcendental Meditation reduced anxiety more than four times as well as all the other techniques.

2. A meta-analysis of various other techniques, such as Benson’s ‘relaxation-response’ technique, bio-feedback, non-TM meditations, and progressive muscle relaxation, the effects on hypertension were found to be no greater than that of placebo techniques (Eisenberg et al 1993).

3. A meta-analysis summary of 597 studies in relaxation research published in the May/June 1998 issue of the American Journal of Health Promotion found the Transcendental Meditation program far more effective than Progressive Relaxation, Mindfulness Meditation, the Benson Technique, Biofeedback, Zen Meditation, Self-Hypnosis and all other forms of meditation and relaxation programs. Areas covered included anxiety reduction, blood pressure reduction, physiological relaxation, self- actualization, improved psychological outcomes, and decreased use of cigarettes, alcohol, and drugs.

4. The most recent published meta-analysis, published in the December 2007 issue of Current Hypertension Reports, suggests that the Transcendental Meditation technique is more effective at producing reductions in high blood pressure than other forms of relaxation, meditation, biofeedback, or stress management. It reviewed 107 published studies in peer-reviewed journals.

It is better to spend a little more money and learn a proven, time tested, scientifically validated program from a trained professional, than it is to save a few dollars and learn something unnatural, ineffective, and of questionable safety.

I wish you all good luck with whatever you do, but if you want REAL benefits, check out the TM web site. http://www.TM.org

matthewtaylor on Tue, 14th Apr 2009 4:37 pm


Thanks Roger. Great comment and some impressive evidence. I may raise some of this in the discussion we have at my mindfullness course (I am half way through a four session – eight week programme). Looking at some of the comments I have had it is interesting how many people still view TM as having religious connotations

Best

Matthew

matthewtaylor on Tue, 14th Apr 2009 4:38 pm


Thanks – I think that’s the first advert I’ve had on my comments page!

matthewtaylor on Tue, 14th Apr 2009 4:39 pm


Thanks Keith. It’s interesting that the misconceptions about TM are still so widespread. Why do you think it is?

matthewtaylor on Tue, 14th Apr 2009 4:41 pm


Thanks Tessy. This is great stuff. I hope Matt Grist has you on his e-mail list for the social brain project. And thanks for your donation too

Tessy Britton on Tue, 14th Apr 2009 10:45 pm


Pleasure Matthew (re: donation)

I am so interested in this area of work and am just about to start teaching teachers about enhancing metacognition in the classroom for both learning and wellbeing…. so love to talk to anyone about it who will listen….

matthewtaylor on Wed, 15th Apr 2009 2:58 pm


Well do e-mail Matt or comment on his blog (if you havn’t already)

Renee on Mon, 1st Jun 2009 5:31 pm


I did all that stuff years ago during the movement the Beatles started. Luckily for me, however, God got to me and showed me Jesus Christ was the answer for all things. I received Christ, and a peace that passes all understanding filled my heart and soul. I’ve been with the Lord so long now that it seems odd that so many people still are trying to win it out on their own without Christ. He really is what he said he is – the Truth, the Way, the Life.

matthewtaylor on Mon, 1st Jun 2009 7:05 pm


Good for you Renee

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