Comments on: Foreign workers, miserable children and the state we’re in http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/thersa/foreign-workers-miserable-children-and-the-state-were-in/ Politics, brains, social action and the day to day life of the RSA’s chief executive Thu, 09 Feb 2012 10:39:05 +0000 hourly 1 By: Matthew Kalman http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/thersa/foreign-workers-miserable-children-and-the-state-were-in/comment-page-1/#comment-885 Matthew Kalman Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:52:16 +0000 http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/?p=1185#comment-885 TRUST, COMMUNITY BREAKDOWN AND DIVERSITY Hi Matthew, It's good to see that you haven't brushed under the carpet the rather dismal findings of Robert Putnam's major project on the effect of diversity on social capital/trust in communities (ie 'low trust is strongly correlated with living in diverse areas with high population turnover ') In contrast to what he must have wanted to uncover, Putnam found that multicultural communities see a breakdown in trust and involvement, and a widespread withdrawal from social and community life – by all the members of the communities, not just particular sub-groups. (He apparently didn't publish his paper for some years, as he wanted to temper the results by coming up with some kind of positive solution). For a thinker generally in favour with 'New Labour' like Putnam to come out with such a hard-hitting - and depressing - finding, would you'd think prompt debate, reappraisal, soul-searching, whatever... Sadly I never saw any such discussions. Sure, I may well have failed to spot them - I'm not part of the mekon/wonk community ;-) The good news, perhaps, is that some further research has possibly refuted/softened Putnam's findings. Here are two papers: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119395639/abstract http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/121392375/abstract (I only just realised that one of them doesn't need a subcription - so I'll at least read that one). Also, you mention a current 'egalitarian backlash' - but is this the best way to frame changes we see today? The possible changes in public opinion on topics like, say, immigration, the family and multiculturalism seem to be a shift against the (blank slate?) egalitarianism of the progressive consensus, not a new example of the Sixties-like 'egalitarian backlash' that you mention. My mind's far from made up on many of this, though... Cheers, Matthew TRUST, COMMUNITY BREAKDOWN AND DIVERSITY

Hi Matthew,

It’s good to see that you haven’t brushed under the carpet the rather dismal findings of Robert Putnam’s major project on the effect of diversity on social capital/trust in communities (ie ‘low trust is strongly correlated with living in diverse areas with high population turnover ‘)

In contrast to what he must have wanted to uncover, Putnam found that multicultural communities see a breakdown in trust and involvement, and a widespread withdrawal from social and community life – by all the members of the communities, not just particular sub-groups. (He apparently didn’t publish his paper for some years, as he wanted to temper the results by coming up with some kind of positive solution).

For a thinker generally in favour with ‘New Labour’ like Putnam to come out with such a hard-hitting – and depressing – finding, would you’d think prompt debate, reappraisal, soul-searching, whatever…

Sadly I never saw any such discussions. Sure, I may well have failed to spot them – I’m not part of the mekon/wonk community ;-)

The good news, perhaps, is that some further research has possibly refuted/softened Putnam’s findings.

Here are two papers:
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119395639/abstract
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/121392375/abstract

(I only just realised that one of them doesn’t need a subcription – so I’ll at least read that one).

Also, you mention a current ‘egalitarian backlash’ – but is this the best way to frame changes we see today?

The possible changes in public opinion on topics like, say, immigration, the family and multiculturalism seem to be a shift against the (blank slate?) egalitarianism of the progressive consensus, not a new example of the Sixties-like ‘egalitarian backlash’ that you mention.

My mind’s far from made up on many of this, though…

Cheers,

Matthew

]]> By: Joe Nutt http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/thersa/foreign-workers-miserable-children-and-the-state-were-in/comment-page-1/#comment-884 Joe Nutt Tue, 03 Feb 2009 12:09:55 +0000 http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/?p=1185#comment-884 I absolutely agree with you that the issue isn't about technology per se, I am a passionate advocate of its intelligent, effective use in education. What concerns me so much is that it just isn't happening because all the drive is coming from techno-zealots whose motivation is self-publicity rather than a school child's educational success. Their brand of techno-voodoo is ubiquitous in the field and for some of the most vociferous, there is also a barely hidden anti-school agenda. One of the most influential figures in current new school design wrote a PhD called "School as Prison" for example. Should we really be giving credence to the educational ideas of individuals whose motivation is so clumsily subjective and selfish? Which ironically seems to take us right back to the core complaint of the Children's Society Report. I absolutely agree with you that the issue isn’t about technology per se, I am a passionate advocate of its intelligent, effective use in education. What concerns me so much is that it just isn’t happening because all the drive is coming from techno-zealots whose motivation is self-publicity rather than a school child’s educational success. Their brand of techno-voodoo is ubiquitous in the field and for some of the most vociferous, there is also a barely hidden anti-school agenda. One of the most influential figures in current new school design wrote a PhD called “School as Prison” for example. Should we really be giving credence to the educational ideas of individuals whose motivation is so clumsily subjective and selfish? Which ironically seems to take us right back to the core complaint of the Children’s Society Report.

]]> By: matthewtaylor http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/thersa/foreign-workers-miserable-children-and-the-state-were-in/comment-page-1/#comment-882 matthewtaylor Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:40:04 +0000 http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/?p=1185#comment-882 Maybe, but there are lots of very religious countries which treat people badly! Maybe, but there are lots of very religious countries which treat people badly!

]]> By: matthewtaylor http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/thersa/foreign-workers-miserable-children-and-the-state-were-in/comment-page-1/#comment-880 matthewtaylor Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:32:27 +0000 http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/?p=1185#comment-880 Hi Joe I reject technological determinism either of a positive or negative kind. I agree that we need to understand how young people use technology and how those who make money from IT use children. Having said which, let's remember that a great deal of computer use in the evenings is in fact replacing TV watching, and it wasn't as if kids fifteen years ago only or mainly watched imprioving television. Technology can be a real help in the classrooom but not as you say as a 'stultifying babysitter' but as a way of allowing chidlren to work at their own pace, to collaborate and to delve deeper into subjects. As always the issue lies not in the technoligy itself but in the way it is used Thanks for the comment Hi Joe

I reject technological determinism either of a positive or negative kind. I agree that we need to understand how young people use technology and how those who make money from IT use children. Having said which, let’s remember that a great deal of computer use in the evenings is in fact replacing TV watching, and it wasn’t as if kids fifteen years ago only or mainly watched imprioving television. Technology can be a real help in the classrooom but not as you say as a ‘stultifying babysitter’ but as a way of allowing chidlren to work at their own pace, to collaborate and to delve deeper into subjects. As always the issue lies not in the technoligy itself but in the way it is used

Thanks for the comment

]]> By: Joe Nutt http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/thersa/foreign-workers-miserable-children-and-the-state-were-in/comment-page-1/#comment-872 Joe Nutt Mon, 02 Feb 2009 19:52:18 +0000 http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/?p=1185#comment-872 Just to take on one statement out of the many, Matthew, "By all means, let us discuss how progress may be hurting our children. Let’s think carefully about how we might start to craft a more humane way of living." So let's. I taught for 19 years and have worked at the cutting edge of educational technology for the past 10. I am just left open mouthed sometimes at the way the benefits of technology are trumpeted by people with either no, or minimal teaching experience whose own writing wouldn't gain them a grade C at GCSE English. (I'm happy to provide examples.) What we end up with is technology as a stultifying babysitter. The Childrens' Society's report, and others' anxieties about the neglect of children via technology in domestic contexts, is every bit as relevant in the educational world but far worse, because there it comes not just with government approval...but enthusiasm and backing. Don't you think perhaps it really is about time we called a halt to this cavalier experiment with an entire generation, and exercised just a modicum of caution? Just to take on one statement out of the many, Matthew, “By all means, let us discuss how progress may be hurting our children. Let’s think carefully about how we might start to craft a more humane way of living.” So let’s. I taught for 19 years and have worked at the cutting edge of educational technology for the past 10. I am just left open mouthed sometimes at the way the benefits of technology are trumpeted by people with either no, or minimal teaching experience whose own writing wouldn’t gain them a grade C at GCSE English. (I’m happy to provide examples.) What we end up with is technology as a stultifying babysitter. The Childrens’ Society’s report, and others’ anxieties about the neglect of children via technology in domestic contexts, is every bit as relevant in the educational world but far worse, because there it comes not just with government approval…but enthusiasm and backing. Don’t you think perhaps it really is about time we called a halt to this cavalier experiment with an entire generation, and exercised just a modicum of caution?

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