15 Comments on Tony, Nina, and me …

dan on Mon, 14th Dec 2009 7:28 pm


My experience of the civil service is that the senior ranks have a limited gene pool-oxbridge and white. Local government has always suffered from politicaland familial nepotism. The private sector is much more of a mix bag-some sectors, such as banking, always, suffered from their own limited intake, whilst the retail sector was more willing to recruit from a wider background and to promote from those same ranks.
Businesses cannot afford to limit their talent-as somebody who places people into employment-i know the private sector see the business case for employing a wide range of people, whereas the public sector often recruit from poorer sections of society in order to meet a target or satisfy some sort of csr need.

emma on Mon, 14th Dec 2009 10:27 pm


So true. I work in the public sector surrounded by a very one dimensional, largely white, male middle aged population – not at all representational of the community we serve.

Indy on Mon, 14th Dec 2009 10:58 pm


Matthew, overall I side with you, because I think the discussion could highlight some interesting elements… at the same time you should inquire into Nina’s concerns, after all a few do spring to my mind, assuming you’d like to explore things in a useful manner:

- There’s a good record of burger flippers becoming store managers… but equally there’s a good record of front-line nurses working their way up to become section managers in the NHS… so is McDonalds/Sainsburys really that special? Are they actually better – or is it that the comparisons made tilt towards organisations who have a large number of roles for school-leavers in their business?

- McDonalds/Sainsburys are famous for how some people who started a long time ago reached the very top now… but is that mobility still in place? Or have they changed along with society? Certainly Sainsburys management recruitment has moved from being mostly in-house to casting a wider net (and that wider net tends not to work so well for social mobility.)

- Is “management” a profession anyway? (Basically, if you read the research the general thinking is “no.”) Given that, is this an apples to oranges comparison? I’m sure there are parts of the public sector that make a good comparison with Sainsburys et al, but will you (rather than Nina!) make the effort to work out which parts those are. Those “professions” which match the more technical definitions of the word are almost always apples compared to the oranges of retail management.

That’s just off the top of my head…

Karl on Tue, 15th Dec 2009 8:46 am


Nina obviously …. although that is putting aside whether the hypothesis stands up to scutiny or not.

Livy on Tue, 15th Dec 2009 9:38 am


I just love how many people were shocked and awed when TB said that. After spending years obsessing over Iraq and attacking him on a personal level, the media now act as if they somehow didn’t realise he was unequivocal all along.

But come on MT, false analogy. Agreed, maybe this is all dull and rehashed. But I can’t let that go. Personally, I could care less about the public’s self-righteous indignation and their conceited “Not in My Name” placards. However, much of that was born of a legitimate grievance that went unaddressed; the goalposts were moved.

Maybe the office junior didn’t steal the petty cash and you didn’t fabricate evidence to that effect. But you did suspect that he might have, and when you couldn’t quite prove it you later stumbled upon a different reason you didn’t “rate him”, which adequately served as just cause for firing someone you wanted off your company’s payroll since ’98.

Rumsfeld’s contribution was possibly the best, “Absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence”. Well quite. That’s probably what I would have said too if I was looking for nukes… quoting a famous astronomer who dedicated his career to the search for extra terrestrial life.

Almost as funny as basing military intelligence on something a cab driver overheard in the back of his car.

Sharliza on Tue, 15th Dec 2009 11:10 am


I vote Nina! It’s too long.

Nina Bolognesi on Tue, 15th Dec 2009 12:15 pm


I will respond to this more fully but I am unfortunately in the middle of a minor work crisis (I call them crisis – ettes) of my own making. These are the worst kind. You cannot shout at anyone and whilst knowing that you have to move swiftly – you are hampered by guilt, a teeny bit of self – loathing and irregular heartbeats caused by too much caffeine.
My reaction to Matthew’s request for this event was instinctive and not based on any research on my part. It just felt a bit hackneyed to claim that the public sector creates more stultifying environments than the private sector. There must be examples within the NHS to take one example which prove the opposite. Also this is not a “public sector good – private sector bad” reaction as some of my best friends work in the private sector (two to be precise…..). It would also be interesting to see how the sectors’ fare in terms of people getting the most out of their roles without necessary going up the career ladder. If you want to expand your existing role, if you have a great idea that you want taken forward – which is the most flexible and receptive? I know this is difficult to measure.
I may soon find out if I do not get to gripes with my guilt.

Matthew Cain on Tue, 15th Dec 2009 5:28 pm


Ann Keen, a minister for health, is a former nurse. Estelle Morris and Jacqui Smith were both former teachers and had senior jobs at the DfEE (in its different forms). John Denham is a former local councillor who runs the department for local government.

I think some private sector companies are much more committed to promoting from within (such as McDonalds) than others (ITV?) but it also goes in trends. A few years back everyone was hiring celeb CEOs (eg. Carly Fiorina) but now they’re back to dull insiders.

Matthew Cain on Tue, 15th Dec 2009 5:30 pm


Actually, perhaps the third sector has the most responsibility for promoting from within – as it would help some charities realise their goals. Shouldn’t Shelter be run by a former homeless person? Or a drug abuse charity by a former addict?

Caitriona on Tue, 15th Dec 2009 9:59 pm


Matt that assumes that moving from drug addict to manager is promotion

phil h on Tue, 15th Dec 2009 10:28 pm


I thought that “the facts had to fit around the policy” according to the infamous Iraq war memo – see Phillippe Sands book for an analysis of the legality.

Lib Dems are the only party to come out of the Iraq escapade with any credit

Ian Leslie on Wed, 16th Dec 2009 2:06 pm


I’d just like to agree wholeheartedly with what you say about the RSA’s events programme. Constantly stimulating, exciting, and FREE. It’s become one of the cerebral joys of London life, and an important contribution to the national conversation. Well done MT, Nina and the team.

louis coiffait on Fri, 18th Dec 2009 12:15 pm


Nina, duh

Andy on Sun, 16th Jan 2011 7:27 pm


I think that the comparisons made tilt towards organisations who have a large number of roles for school-leavers in their business. Also John Denham is a former local councillor who runs the department for local government.

Looking for JOBS in Sainsburys ?
Jobs

faisal on Thu, 20th Jan 2011 5:23 pm


I have to say, I probably disagree with you and your parents on some opinions (seeing as how if I could vote in this election, I would

have voted for John McCain without a doubt), but I guess I consider myself a pretty liberal republician (I know…an oxymoron. But

then, so is conservative democrat.)
Software House

Tell me what you're thinking...
and oh, if you want a pic to show with your comment, go get a gravatar!